To think I almost missed this book, I kept seeing a Certain Point of View and thinking it was the Star Wars (The New Hope) version, days before it came out I realised I realised it was the Empire Strikes Back reciving the FACPOF treatment.
Like the first book it is difficult to give an overall rating as there are some stories I enjoyed more then others. I found I really like probobly 35 out of 40 stories so 5 stars it is. Unlike the first book, the stories are not in completely sequential. Some do overlap so it give a different person's story or perspective on the same event. I must say prefer this to the first book, and I did like in the first few stories a couple of crossover characters.
The book will does follow the format of the group of stories based on the battle of Host will be together. Then the search in the asteroid field and so on. I like that they hive both Rebel and Imperial perspective stories. Also fills in the blanks of what the rest of the Rebels were doing while Luke was Jedi Training giving a major side character a well deserved life. Potentially leading into one of the upcoming Star Wars spinoffs series to be released. Though Disney has let me down with bridging book to TV in the past. Though I still have hope.
A very enjoyable book and great stories. The book is 549, 561 if you include the acknowledgments pages. 9once again adds depth and great character to build on in the future I hope. Now I am already looking forward to Return of the Jedi FACPOV.
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From a Certain Point of View: The Empire Strikes Back (Star Wars) Audio CD – Unabridged, 10 November 2020
by
Seth Dickinson
(Author),
Hank Green
(Author),
R. F. Kuang
(Author),
Martha Wells
(Author),
Kiersten White
(Author),
Jonathan Davis
(Reader),
Sean Kenin Elias-Reyes
(Reader),
Dion Graham
(Reader),
Jon Hamm
(Reader),
January LaVoy
(Reader),
Soneela Nankani
(Reader),
Marc Thompson
(Reader),
Sam Witwer
(Reader),
Emily Woo Zeller
(Reader)
&
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Seth Dickinson
(Author)
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Details
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LanguageEnglish
-
PublisherRandom House Audio
-
Publication date10 November 2020
-
Dimensions12.83 x 4.14 x 14.91 cm
-
ISBN-100593215400
-
ISBN-13978-0593215401
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Product description
Review
“An A+ list of today’s best sf/f writers explore the inner reaches of a galaxy far, far away, which is sure to appeal to sf readers and Star Wars fans alike.”—Booklist
About the Author
Hank Green is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of An Absolutely Remarkable Thing and A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor. He’s also the CEO of Complexly, a production company that creates educational content, including Crash Course and SciShow, prompting The Washington Post to name him “one of America’s most popular science teachers.” Complexly’s videos have been viewed more than two billion times on YouTube. Hank and his brother, John, are also raising money to dramatically and systematically improve maternal health care in Sierra Leone, where, if trends continue, one in seventeen women will die in childbirth.
R. F. Kuang is the Nebula, Locus, and World Fantasy award nominated author of The Poppy War and The Dragon Republic (HarperVoyager). She has an MPhil in Chinese studies from the University of Cambridge and is currently pursuing an MSc in contemporary Chinese studies at Oxford University on a Marshall Scholarship. She also translates Chinese science fiction to English. Her debut The Poppy War was listed by Time and The Guardian as one of the best books of 2018 and has won the Crawford Award and Compton Crook Award for Best First Novel.
Martha Wells has been an SF/F writer since her first fantasy novel was published in 1993, and a Star Wars fan since she saw A New Hope in the theater in 1977. Her work includes The Books of the Raksura series, The Death of the Necromancer, the Ile-Rien trilogy, The Murderbot Diaries series, media tie-ins for Star Wars and Stargate: Atlantis, as well as short fiction, YA novels, and nonfiction. She was also the lead writer for the story team of Magic: The Gathering’s Dominaria expansion in 2018. She has won a Nebula Award, two Hugo Awards, and two Locus Awards, and her work has appeared on the Philip K. Dick Award ballot, the BSFA Award ballot, the USA Today bestseller list, and the New York Times bestseller list.
Kiersten White is the New York Times bestselling, Stoker Award–winning author of many books, including the And I Darken trilogy, the Slayer series, the Camelot Rising trilogy, and The Dark Descent of Elizabeth Frankenstein. She owns a perfectly reasonable number of lightsabers, and sometimes even lets her kids play with them.
R. F. Kuang is the Nebula, Locus, and World Fantasy award nominated author of The Poppy War and The Dragon Republic (HarperVoyager). She has an MPhil in Chinese studies from the University of Cambridge and is currently pursuing an MSc in contemporary Chinese studies at Oxford University on a Marshall Scholarship. She also translates Chinese science fiction to English. Her debut The Poppy War was listed by Time and The Guardian as one of the best books of 2018 and has won the Crawford Award and Compton Crook Award for Best First Novel.
Martha Wells has been an SF/F writer since her first fantasy novel was published in 1993, and a Star Wars fan since she saw A New Hope in the theater in 1977. Her work includes The Books of the Raksura series, The Death of the Necromancer, the Ile-Rien trilogy, The Murderbot Diaries series, media tie-ins for Star Wars and Stargate: Atlantis, as well as short fiction, YA novels, and nonfiction. She was also the lead writer for the story team of Magic: The Gathering’s Dominaria expansion in 2018. She has won a Nebula Award, two Hugo Awards, and two Locus Awards, and her work has appeared on the Philip K. Dick Award ballot, the BSFA Award ballot, the USA Today bestseller list, and the New York Times bestseller list.
Kiersten White is the New York Times bestselling, Stoker Award–winning author of many books, including the And I Darken trilogy, the Slayer series, the Camelot Rising trilogy, and The Dark Descent of Elizabeth Frankenstein. She owns a perfectly reasonable number of lightsabers, and sometimes even lets her kids play with them.
Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.
Eyes of the Empire
Kiersten White
“Pick any of the last ten transmissions you’ve looked at. You have to live there for the rest of your life. Where are you?” Lorem said, her voice ringing through the small processing room where they all worked.
Maela admired how Lorem could multitask, sorting through data while keeping up a steady stream of chatter.
Dirjo Harch did not admire it. “Just do your job.” He deleted whatever he was looking at on his screen and pulled up the next data packet. Maela wished they could work individually. Or better yet, in small groups. She’d pick Lorem for her group. And Azier. So really, she’d make a group that was everyone except Dirjo, with his sour expressions and his pinched personality.
“I am doing my job,” Lorem said, chipper as always. Sometimes she wore her cap at a jaunty angle over her dark curls. Just enough to be off dress code, but not enough to give Dirjo an excuse to report her. Maela liked the uniform, liked what it meant. That she was here. That she did it.
A light flashed near Maela’s face and she flipped the switch, accepting an incoming transmission and adding it to the ever-growing queue. She had spent so long with the Vipers, infinite rows of them, round domes and legs like jointed tentacles. She used to stare into their blank black eyes and wonder where they would go. What they would see.
Now she saw everything.
“But while I’m doing my job,” Lorem continued, and Dirjo’s shoulders tensed, “I don’t see why we can’t have some fun. We’re going to be looking through a hundred thousand of these transmissions.”
Azier leaned back, stretching. He rubbed his hands down his pale face, clean-shaven, wrinkled. Maela suspected working on the Swarm transmission recovery and processing unit was a demotion for him, though she didn’t know why. Dirjo and Lorem were just starting their Imperial service, like her.
“Lorem, my young friend,” Azier said in the clipped, polished tones of the Empire, the ones Maela was still trying to master to hide that she came from somewhere else, “the man we report to is serving on the Executor as part of Lord Vader’s Death Squadron. Do you really think fun is a priority for any of them?”
Lorem giggled, and even Maela had to smile. Dirjo, however, scowled, turning his head sharply. “Are you criticizing Lord Vader?”
Azier waved a hand dismissively. “They’re bringing death to those who would threaten the Empire. I lived through a war none of you remember or understand. I have no desire to do it again. And Lorem, to answer your question, I’d rather stay in this floating tin can forever than visit any of the forsaken rocks our probe droids are reporting from.”
“Not a hundred thousand,” Maela said softly.
“What?” Lorem asked, turning around in her chair to give her full attention to Maela.
“Project Swarm sent out a hundred thousand. But some won’t make it to their destinations. Some will crash and be incapable of functioning after. Some might land in environments that make transmission impossible. If I had to guess, I’d say we’ll receive anywhere from sixty-five thousand to eighty thousand transmissions.” Vipers were tough little wonders, and their pods protected them, but still. Space was vast, and there were so many variables.
“In that case,” Lorem said, grinning, “we’ll be done by the end of the day. And then we can decide which planet we’ll live on forever! Though none of my prospects are good. You’re from the Deep Core, aren’t you? Any footage from your planet so we can add it to our potential relocation list?”
Maela turned back to her own work. Her accent attempts hadn’t been as good as she thought, after all. “No footage. We didn’t send droids to Vulpter.”
Azier snorted a laugh.
“Why?” Lorem asked. “Why is that funny?”
Dirjo hit a button harder than necessary. “Half the probe droids we have are made on Vulpter. Back to work.” His tone was brusque, but he looked appraisingly at Maela. “You came from the manufacturing side. I would like to speak about it, sometime.”
Maela went back to her screen. She knew this work wasn’t sought-after. That it was either washouts like Azier or those who hadn’t managed to climb up the ranks yet like Dirjo. But she had specifically requested it and had no desire to move elsewhere in the Empire’s service. She slipped her hand into her pocket and rubbed the smooth, rounded surface of a probe droid’s main eye. How many times had she traced these eyes, longing to see what they saw? Imagined flinging herself through the reaches of space alongside them to uncover sights untold?
And now here she was. As close as she could get. The fates and visions of tens of thousands of probe droids at her fingertips. It was an actual dream come true.
For her, at least.
“No,” her mother said, not bothering to take off her mirrored goggles. “Absolutely not.”
Maela felt the pout taking over her face, which made her angry. She was past pouting age, and definitely past being teased for the way her lips refused to allow her to hide any emotions.
“It’s not fair,” she said, gesturing at the prototype her mother was tinkering with. “There’s so much out there, and they see everything, and all I see is this factory.” Maela leaned close, looking at her distorted reflection in the probe droid’s main eye. She knew it wasn’t an eye, not really, but she always thought of it that way. She would walk down the lines of droids, hanging like fruit from mechanical vines, making certain she saw herself in every single eye. That way, when they went out into the galaxy, flung to places and planets she would never visit, at least part of her would be taken. A ghost in her mother’s machines.
“You think you’ll see so much, working for the Empire?” Her mother made a face like she had a bad taste in her mouth. “You don’t want any part of them.”
“How can you say that?” Maela threw her hands in the air, astounded at her mother’s hypocrisy. “You work for them!”
“I do not work for them. I design and manufacture droids. Which is not an easy business to be in after the Clone Wars.” She sighed, leaning back and running her hands through her wild curls. They were more gray than black now, and Maela knew beneath the goggles she’d see the fine lines of age slowly claiming all the skin around her mother’s eyes. “This is what I’m good at. It’s what keeps our family safe.”
“And keeps us locked up here on this lifeless planet in this lifeless factory!” Maela kicked the table, and the prototype parts went skittering away. “At least if I were working with the Empire, I’d be doing something.”
“Yes,” her mother said, in a tone like a door sliding shut. “You would be doing many things.” She walked away, leaving Maela alone with the metal that was not yet a droid.
Maela picked up the eye and stared at her reflection. She didn’t want to be a ghost, a memory, a prisoner. The eye fit perfectly in her pocket, tucked alongside the decision Maela had made. She would send herself out into the galaxy, flung to new and unknown destinations by the same Empire that claimed these droids.
Maela’s eyes were grainy, so dry she could hear her eyelids click when she blinked. She didn’t know how long she had been watching footage, dismissing transmissions that offered no useful information. The others had wandered out at some point, to eat or sleep, she didn’t know.
She didn’t need her mother’s droids to carry her ghost into the galaxy, because she was connected to them now. They were at her fingertips, and she stared out through them at countless new sights. She was everywhere.
Plants as tall as buildings, towering overhead, glowing in colors human eyes couldn’t have discerned. Desertscapes so barren she could feel her throat parching just looking at them. A depthless ocean, eyes and teeth and fins exploring her as she sank into darkness. World after world after world, and she was seeing them all.
She was so blinded by the infinite white ice of the newest planet that she almost missed it.
“Someone made those,” she whispered, tracing the even, symmetrical mounds rising out of the snow. They were metal, and, according to the droid, they were generating power. Which meant they were being used. But before she could make the connection active and direct the droid, the screen flashed and then the feed was dead.
Her droid had self-destructed. Which could only mean it had been attacked. Maela’s heart began racing. This was it. She had found what they were looking for, she was certain.
She pushed her comm. “Dirjo, I’ve got them.”
His answer crackled with static and sleepiness. “Got what?”
“The Rebellion.”
Kiersten White
“Pick any of the last ten transmissions you’ve looked at. You have to live there for the rest of your life. Where are you?” Lorem said, her voice ringing through the small processing room where they all worked.
Maela admired how Lorem could multitask, sorting through data while keeping up a steady stream of chatter.
Dirjo Harch did not admire it. “Just do your job.” He deleted whatever he was looking at on his screen and pulled up the next data packet. Maela wished they could work individually. Or better yet, in small groups. She’d pick Lorem for her group. And Azier. So really, she’d make a group that was everyone except Dirjo, with his sour expressions and his pinched personality.
“I am doing my job,” Lorem said, chipper as always. Sometimes she wore her cap at a jaunty angle over her dark curls. Just enough to be off dress code, but not enough to give Dirjo an excuse to report her. Maela liked the uniform, liked what it meant. That she was here. That she did it.
A light flashed near Maela’s face and she flipped the switch, accepting an incoming transmission and adding it to the ever-growing queue. She had spent so long with the Vipers, infinite rows of them, round domes and legs like jointed tentacles. She used to stare into their blank black eyes and wonder where they would go. What they would see.
Now she saw everything.
“But while I’m doing my job,” Lorem continued, and Dirjo’s shoulders tensed, “I don’t see why we can’t have some fun. We’re going to be looking through a hundred thousand of these transmissions.”
Azier leaned back, stretching. He rubbed his hands down his pale face, clean-shaven, wrinkled. Maela suspected working on the Swarm transmission recovery and processing unit was a demotion for him, though she didn’t know why. Dirjo and Lorem were just starting their Imperial service, like her.
“Lorem, my young friend,” Azier said in the clipped, polished tones of the Empire, the ones Maela was still trying to master to hide that she came from somewhere else, “the man we report to is serving on the Executor as part of Lord Vader’s Death Squadron. Do you really think fun is a priority for any of them?”
Lorem giggled, and even Maela had to smile. Dirjo, however, scowled, turning his head sharply. “Are you criticizing Lord Vader?”
Azier waved a hand dismissively. “They’re bringing death to those who would threaten the Empire. I lived through a war none of you remember or understand. I have no desire to do it again. And Lorem, to answer your question, I’d rather stay in this floating tin can forever than visit any of the forsaken rocks our probe droids are reporting from.”
“Not a hundred thousand,” Maela said softly.
“What?” Lorem asked, turning around in her chair to give her full attention to Maela.
“Project Swarm sent out a hundred thousand. But some won’t make it to their destinations. Some will crash and be incapable of functioning after. Some might land in environments that make transmission impossible. If I had to guess, I’d say we’ll receive anywhere from sixty-five thousand to eighty thousand transmissions.” Vipers were tough little wonders, and their pods protected them, but still. Space was vast, and there were so many variables.
“In that case,” Lorem said, grinning, “we’ll be done by the end of the day. And then we can decide which planet we’ll live on forever! Though none of my prospects are good. You’re from the Deep Core, aren’t you? Any footage from your planet so we can add it to our potential relocation list?”
Maela turned back to her own work. Her accent attempts hadn’t been as good as she thought, after all. “No footage. We didn’t send droids to Vulpter.”
Azier snorted a laugh.
“Why?” Lorem asked. “Why is that funny?”
Dirjo hit a button harder than necessary. “Half the probe droids we have are made on Vulpter. Back to work.” His tone was brusque, but he looked appraisingly at Maela. “You came from the manufacturing side. I would like to speak about it, sometime.”
Maela went back to her screen. She knew this work wasn’t sought-after. That it was either washouts like Azier or those who hadn’t managed to climb up the ranks yet like Dirjo. But she had specifically requested it and had no desire to move elsewhere in the Empire’s service. She slipped her hand into her pocket and rubbed the smooth, rounded surface of a probe droid’s main eye. How many times had she traced these eyes, longing to see what they saw? Imagined flinging herself through the reaches of space alongside them to uncover sights untold?
And now here she was. As close as she could get. The fates and visions of tens of thousands of probe droids at her fingertips. It was an actual dream come true.
For her, at least.
“No,” her mother said, not bothering to take off her mirrored goggles. “Absolutely not.”
Maela felt the pout taking over her face, which made her angry. She was past pouting age, and definitely past being teased for the way her lips refused to allow her to hide any emotions.
“It’s not fair,” she said, gesturing at the prototype her mother was tinkering with. “There’s so much out there, and they see everything, and all I see is this factory.” Maela leaned close, looking at her distorted reflection in the probe droid’s main eye. She knew it wasn’t an eye, not really, but she always thought of it that way. She would walk down the lines of droids, hanging like fruit from mechanical vines, making certain she saw herself in every single eye. That way, when they went out into the galaxy, flung to places and planets she would never visit, at least part of her would be taken. A ghost in her mother’s machines.
“You think you’ll see so much, working for the Empire?” Her mother made a face like she had a bad taste in her mouth. “You don’t want any part of them.”
“How can you say that?” Maela threw her hands in the air, astounded at her mother’s hypocrisy. “You work for them!”
“I do not work for them. I design and manufacture droids. Which is not an easy business to be in after the Clone Wars.” She sighed, leaning back and running her hands through her wild curls. They were more gray than black now, and Maela knew beneath the goggles she’d see the fine lines of age slowly claiming all the skin around her mother’s eyes. “This is what I’m good at. It’s what keeps our family safe.”
“And keeps us locked up here on this lifeless planet in this lifeless factory!” Maela kicked the table, and the prototype parts went skittering away. “At least if I were working with the Empire, I’d be doing something.”
“Yes,” her mother said, in a tone like a door sliding shut. “You would be doing many things.” She walked away, leaving Maela alone with the metal that was not yet a droid.
Maela picked up the eye and stared at her reflection. She didn’t want to be a ghost, a memory, a prisoner. The eye fit perfectly in her pocket, tucked alongside the decision Maela had made. She would send herself out into the galaxy, flung to new and unknown destinations by the same Empire that claimed these droids.
Maela’s eyes were grainy, so dry she could hear her eyelids click when she blinked. She didn’t know how long she had been watching footage, dismissing transmissions that offered no useful information. The others had wandered out at some point, to eat or sleep, she didn’t know.
She didn’t need her mother’s droids to carry her ghost into the galaxy, because she was connected to them now. They were at her fingertips, and she stared out through them at countless new sights. She was everywhere.
Plants as tall as buildings, towering overhead, glowing in colors human eyes couldn’t have discerned. Desertscapes so barren she could feel her throat parching just looking at them. A depthless ocean, eyes and teeth and fins exploring her as she sank into darkness. World after world after world, and she was seeing them all.
She was so blinded by the infinite white ice of the newest planet that she almost missed it.
“Someone made those,” she whispered, tracing the even, symmetrical mounds rising out of the snow. They were metal, and, according to the droid, they were generating power. Which meant they were being used. But before she could make the connection active and direct the droid, the screen flashed and then the feed was dead.
Her droid had self-destructed. Which could only mean it had been attacked. Maela’s heart began racing. This was it. She had found what they were looking for, she was certain.
She pushed her comm. “Dirjo, I’ve got them.”
His answer crackled with static and sleepiness. “Got what?”
“The Rebellion.”
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Product details
- Publisher : Random House Audio; Unabridged edition (10 November 2020)
- Language : English
- ISBN-10 : 0593215400
- ISBN-13 : 978-0593215401
- Item Weight : 386 g
- Dimensions : 12.83 x 4.14 x 14.91 cm
- Country of Origin : USA
- Customer Reviews:
Customer reviews
4.7 out of 5 stars
4.7 out of 5
1,153 global ratings
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Top reviews from other countries

K. G. A. Alavi
5.0 out of 5 stars
Great book great cause.
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 22 December 2020Verified Purchase
5 people found this helpful
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Kindle Customer
3.0 out of 5 stars
Could have been better
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 17 January 2021Verified Purchase
Having really enjoyed the first book of this anthology series, I was really looking forward to this one, especially seeing as 'Empire' is my favourite Star Wars movie.
However, I'm left feeling slightly disappointed. I would give this 2 and a half stars but I rounded it up to 3.
Most of the stories are dull; far too many of them take place in the rebel base on Hoth or on Star Destroyers from the point-of-view of the Empire. They add nothing to the story and none of the incidental characters are interesting enough to have overly long stories based around them. Once we leave Hoth, it gets far more interesting with tales of the space slug and the dark side nexus tree cave on Dagobah being particularly interesting. Other stand out stories are those of Boba Fett and Bossk. Once the story reaches Cloud City, the pacing begins to slow again and we are told several stories from the perspective of random citizens of Bespin, none of whom are particularly interesting. There are a couple of stories that tick the "woke" boxes too which i found pointless. Another disappointing one is Obi-Wan's story on Dagobah, which doesn't feel like Alec Guiness' voice and one of the latter ones features a deserting stormtrooper witnessing the duel between Vader and Luke, which seems incredulous and takes away somewhat the spirit of the scene. The penultimate tale is good, told from the perspective of the medical droid reparing Luke's hand, but the finale is another 4th wall breaking narrative from "The Whills" which is probably just a non-canon comedy but cones across as stupid, disrespectful and pointless.
The only other remark I would make is that this book pointed out something I had never noticed before in the film; there are barely any aliens in it. I'm looking forward to the inevitable Return of the Jedi entry because I know it will be the opposite of this.
However, I'm left feeling slightly disappointed. I would give this 2 and a half stars but I rounded it up to 3.
Most of the stories are dull; far too many of them take place in the rebel base on Hoth or on Star Destroyers from the point-of-view of the Empire. They add nothing to the story and none of the incidental characters are interesting enough to have overly long stories based around them. Once we leave Hoth, it gets far more interesting with tales of the space slug and the dark side nexus tree cave on Dagobah being particularly interesting. Other stand out stories are those of Boba Fett and Bossk. Once the story reaches Cloud City, the pacing begins to slow again and we are told several stories from the perspective of random citizens of Bespin, none of whom are particularly interesting. There are a couple of stories that tick the "woke" boxes too which i found pointless. Another disappointing one is Obi-Wan's story on Dagobah, which doesn't feel like Alec Guiness' voice and one of the latter ones features a deserting stormtrooper witnessing the duel between Vader and Luke, which seems incredulous and takes away somewhat the spirit of the scene. The penultimate tale is good, told from the perspective of the medical droid reparing Luke's hand, but the finale is another 4th wall breaking narrative from "The Whills" which is probably just a non-canon comedy but cones across as stupid, disrespectful and pointless.
The only other remark I would make is that this book pointed out something I had never noticed before in the film; there are barely any aliens in it. I'm looking forward to the inevitable Return of the Jedi entry because I know it will be the opposite of this.
One person found this helpful
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Lewis
2.0 out of 5 stars
From a certain point of view....
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 11 February 2021Verified Purchase
After the fantastic first book celebrating ANH I thought this would be on par, if not better, but in truth I'm finding it difficult. Its not a patch in quality compared to the stories in the first book and without a doubt, if you believe in an agenda by Kathleen Kennedy/Disney or not there is a slightly forced narrative to some of the stories that are to be honest pointless and dull. There must have a lot of potential for some really good stories, but this overall misses the mark. I will finish the book and if there is one for RotJ will complete the collection.

H
3.0 out of 5 stars
Good product, bad quality
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 8 December 2020Verified Purchase
I like the product; however the I’m disappointed by the quality of the case of the book. Considering this book is brand new, the case has quite a few scratches on scuffs on it. Not a massive problem if I bought it second-hand but it’s brand new, therefore I expect it to look brand new.

3.0 out of 5 stars
Good product, bad quality
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 8 December 2020
I like the product; however the I’m disappointed by the quality of the case of the book. Considering this book is brand new, the case has quite a few scratches on scuffs on it. Not a massive problem if I bought it second-hand but it’s brand new, therefore I expect it to look brand new.
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 8 December 2020
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2 people found this helpful
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Richard W Gudge
4.0 out of 5 stars
A very good read
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 10 December 2020Verified Purchase
The book gave some background to the Empire Strikes back film and just filled a few gaps all the stories read well and linked read it in 2 sittings and will reread at a slower pace over crimbo
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